ID an illness?

Subject: Re: ID an illness? Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:18 pm

Wyomingite wrote:

MY guess is MAI (motile aeromonad infection). Aeromonas are predominantly FW motile bacteria that take advantage of stress in fish to cause infection. MAI is stress induced and is one of the most common freshwater fish infections around. It is characterized by open wounds, bug-eye and infected ventral region, or any combo of 1-3 of these symptoms. The facts that normal antibiotics did not help and that there are no signs of internal infection points to an outside factor causing stress on your fish, opening the door for an Aeromonas infection. It also suggests that this bacterial infection originated externally. The placement of ulcers/ symptoms may differ dependent on the species of Aeromonas causing the infection. But they're all pretty close. A primary infection, overcrowding, temperature too high for the fish species, off-spec water parameters, and inadequate diet all are factors that increase stress and therefore the risk of MAI. So take a look again at these factors and see if any of them may have contributed. Also take another look at your gouramis, especially the ventral region. Natural color and size may hinder seein' any other symptoms.

There's somethin' like 150 or 200 species of Aeromanas world-wide, and many strains are immune to normal antibiotics, so the fact Pimafix and/or Melafix didn't help isn't indicative of a bad product. Just means ya didn't have the right drug for this particular strain. Antibiotics aren't necessarily the best way to go, though. In many cases simply correcting the stressor and allowing the fish's immune system to recover will correct the problem.

Live foods can introduce Aeromonas into a system. Were ya feedin' live bloodworms? Did the last two gold barbs show signs before the introduction of the tiger barbs? There's an additional stressor, adding robust, aggressive new tankmates. That's also an additional path for the introduction of Aeromonas. If this has been goin' on for a year, though, I'd say the bacteria were already present in your system.

Also, IME, gouramis and tiger barbs are not a good mix, tigers love to nip at the long pelvic fins. It may not be an infection gettin' the gouramis. Gouramis use their long, thin pelvic fins much like a cat uses it's whiskers for exploration, the pelvic fins are very sensitive. IIRC there are even "taste buds" on them. Unfortunately, those same pelvic fins are an enticing target for the barbs. You may not be witnessing it, but I bet the gouramis are gettin' harrassed, increasing their stress level. Get the gouramis into a separate tank from the barbs.

Quarantine tank. I can't stress the importance of a QT tank for isolating new arrivals and treating illnesses.

Breaking down the tank may not be a bad idea, but that doesn't necessarily mean that an infection won't reoccur. Bacteria are always present in a tank.

BTW, MAI can infect aquatic amphibians, as well.

WYite

NOW THAT IS INFO cheers

As for bleach if you use it I forgot to mention 10-1 with water 10 being the water Smile

and it works well.

The Turtle Whisperer Posts: 1914

Stingy with the meds over there eh? The potassium permanganate is available at most pool/hot tub stores here, so there may be a work around on that if it comes up again in the future.

So you can't even get basic ich cures and the like without a prescription from a vet over there?

Subject: Re: ID an illness? Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:58 am

I'd likely be able to get potassium permanganate with some research but anything resembling an antibiotic is schedule 6 and requires a veterinary prescription. All we have access to are about three brands of off the counter fish treatments which TBH have moderate/mixed successes because they'll not even say what it isn't the bottle as an active ingredient.

Honestly. Most of the time we are fumbling around with salt baths/garlic. Off the counter medications usually don't help for most people kill more fish than they save.